Card Talk
CARD TALK is a mini podcast featuring tarot basics and evergreen insights, supporting you from your very first reading to card-slinging with confidence. Whether you're a curious beginner or an experienced practitioner, CARD TALK is your new go-to tarot podcast for quick tips and practical tricks.
Hosted by 3am.tarot creator and Finding the Fool author Meg Jones Wall, a queer and non-binary tarot reader dedicated to creating accessible, inclusive tarot resources.
Card Talk
tarot (books) for collective liberation
On this special episode of CARD TALK, we're talking about five books that are devoted to tarot not just as a personal practice, but also as a tool for collective liberation.
Check out these tarot books & their talented authors:
Red Tarot // Christopher Marmolejo
Radical Tarot // Charlie Claire Burgess
Tarot for the Hard Work // Maria Minnis
Queering the Tarot // Cassandra Snow
And available now: 78 Acts of Liberation // Lane Smith
I also highly recommend the work of so many other liberation-oriented tarot teachers and creators including Rashunda Tramble, Cyrée Jarelle Johnson, Jezmina Von Thiele, Sara Calvarese, Amanda Yates Garcia, Althea Sebastiani, Corinna Rosella, Nyasha Williams, Juliet Diaz, Cristy C. Road, Cedar McCloud, Siri Plouff, Beth Maiden, Asali Earthwork, Kelly-Ann Maddox, Bee Scolnick, Michelle Tea, Mary K. Greer, Rachel Pollack, and so many others. This is in no way an exhaustive list, but I hope it will get you started.
Decolonizing your tarot practice is essential work, but if it also brings up big feelings or leaves you craving support, check out my new tarot journaling resources Drink Some Water and Queens of Spirit.
For more on Meg, check out 3amtarot.com, and order your copy of Finding the Fool through Bookshop.org or your favorite local bookstore.
Find episode transcripts and more over on the CARD TALK website.
Love what you’re hearing? Support the pod with a one-time donation or recurring subscription, and please subscribe, review, and tell your friends!
CARD TALK is written, edited, and produced by Meg Jones Wall of 3am.tarot. Theme music created by PaulYudin.
My name is Meg Jones-Wall and you're listening to Card Talk, a mini podcast for tarot basics and evergreen insights. I'm glad you're here. Today's episode of Card Talk is going to be a little bit different than some of the episodes I've released so far. This is episode 20. So I just want to open by saying thank you to everyone who has been listening to and supporting these early episodes. Card Talk is very much a labor of love and I am so grateful to y'all for listening, to the handful of people who have signed up for recurring donations or made one-time donations to help me cover the cost of production, and to everyone who has shared and subscribed and just sent me really nice notes about the podcast. I love doing this. I'm excited to see where it goes and I'm really enjoying making these bite-sized episodes for you to continue learning about how to read tarot for yourself. Besides talking and writing about tarot, one of my favorite things to do is to connect people with other incredible teachers and writers and artists and creators, and so today I'm going to tell you about five truly amazing, gifted and generous authors and teachers who are using tarot not just for personal work, but also for collective and community work. Now, normally I release Card Talk episodes on Thursdays, because that was the day that I dropped it and it just felt cute to keep that up. But I'm releasing today's episode on Tuesday, August 20th, because today is pub day for a brand new book that not only fits into this category, but also was really the inspiration for this entire episode. Today is the pub day for Lane Smith's new book, 78 Acts of Liberation, a book that I'm going to talk about a little bit later, but I just want to say is one of my favorite new books on tarot and one that I think belongs on absolutely everyone's shelf. Before we get into the books themselves, I just want to clarify and offer that I think that collective and community work is incredibly important in this world that we live in, and in tarot specifically.
Speaker 1:I think the tarot has a lot to say about the collective, and I think that tarot can be a really incredible tool for collective work, organizing work, mutual aid work, as well as liberation work, decolonization work and anti-racism work, as these authors so beautifully demonstrate in their own work. In my personal work, however, generally I focus more on the individual. I focus on personal transformation, on teaching you how to read the cards for yourselves, and also about using the cards to break free from old patterns and learn to live as our most authentic, brave and courageous self. Tarot can do so many things right. It is really a tool that can be used in so many different ways, and there is a growing number of tarot teachers and creators who are releasing and creating incredible resources connected to decolonization, anti-racism work, mutual aid, organizing, inclusivity and, just broadly, tarot for the revolution, Tarot that is designed to help us connect with the collective, stand up for what's right and transform this world in a way that it is desperate to be transformed. This is work that I really deeply believe in, and I try to talk about my values pretty openly on my website, on social media and in my newsletter, because I think it's important that you know what I value and what I stand for and what I'm working towards. I think that decolonization work and anti-racism work and collective work is incredibly important, but I also don't feel that I am yet at a place where I am qualified to step into a leadership role when it comes to especially decolonization work and anti-racism work. I still really see myself in a student position and I'm not sure I'm ever going to leave that position. So part of the impetus of this episode is to give you tools and point you towards tarot teachers and leaders with wide amounts of experience and range when it comes to these topics that can really instruct you in a much more holistic, empowered and frankly experienced way.
Speaker 1:The five authors that I'm going to talk to you about today are folks with decades of experience in organizing activism, mutual aid and decolonization work, as well as liberation education. They're also, specifically, folks who do this work with tarot, and so I think they're amazing people for you to look to, to learn more about, to support and to really engage with. They have so much to teach us, and the books that I'm going to tell you about today are fucking incredible. Now, before I start talking about these books specifically, I just want to acknowledge that there are a lot of amazing people whose work fits into this category, so please hear me when I say that this is in no way meant to be a complete list. Rather, I'm just highlighting five living authors whose work you can support right now, whose books are out in the world, and these are books that I have personally read and loved and recommended. Some of the people in this list are folks whose work I really admire. Others are people I'm literally in relationship with or have worked with.
Speaker 1:If you're already on an anti-racism journey, if you've been wanting to learn more about decolonizing your practice, or if these are just principles and values that are important to you, these books are going to help you along the way, and definitely check out their bibliographies and acknowledgements so that you can build out a list of dozens of other incredible creators and teachers whose work you can follow and support. I think personal work is incredibly important, which is why it's the main focus of my own practice and education work, but I think it's equally important, especially at this particular moment in history, for us to continue to grow in collective ways, and I think that Tarot really is uniquely equipped to support us in doing this work. So, with all of that being said, in today's episode, I'm going to tell you about five books that I really really love for this kind of work and for this area. These are authors who are committed to their paths, who have a wide range of incredibly robust resources and courses and offerings that you can connect with, and I want to read you a little excerpt from each of their books. Give you a idea of what the book is about, and I'm also including links where you can purchase all of their books in the show notes. And if purchasing a book might not be in the budget right now, please know that requesting these books from your local library is also a really incredible way to support authors.
Speaker 1:The first book that I want to tell you about is the Red Tarot by Christopher Marmolejo. This book is more of a 201 book, I would say, than a straight-up beginner's book, but it's honestly one of my favorite New Tarot books that I've read this year. It's one that I was really anticipating, and it went so far above and beyond my own expectations and hopes that I've been yelling about this book to anyone who would listen. Red Tarot's subtitle is A Decolonial Guide to Divinatory Literacy, and I think that really highlights the magic of this book, because it's really about learning to read the tarot as a radical thing, as a radical tool in and of itself, and using tarot in a critical and literary way. From the back, I want to read. They show how the cards can be read to subvert the dynamics of white supremacist, capitalist, imperialist patriarchy, weaving historical context and spiritual practice into a comprehensive overview of the tarot. End quote.
Speaker 1:I think what I particularly love about the Red Tarot is that it really challenges the narratives that we have about certain cards and about the tarot in general. It really pushes us to consider the historical context, not only of the cards but of where we are as individuals in history and how the ways that we have historically understood certain ideas shapes what we think is possible now. This book is so beautifully written, it challenges so many assumptions that you might have about the cards and it really utilizes indigenous wisdom and literary critique to understand the cards in a way that completely blew my mind. When I tell you that every other sentence in this book is highlighted in my copy, I'm really not exaggerating. I kind of had to stop highlighting because I was just highlighting the entire book.
Speaker 1:One other thing I want to say about this book is that it is organized in a numerological way, but rather than using the numbers in the way that I do, whereas we're combining the digits from a more Pythagorean kind of mindset, instead the Red Tarot uses the numbers that are present in the cards without combining the digits, which means that, from a numerological perspective, we're actually going to be looking at some of those later double digits cards in the major arcana through a different lens. We're going to be looking at them through the lens of different numbers than you might be used to, and I think that's phenomenal because, again, it gives us a new way to examine these cards, a new way to connect with and understand these cards, and challenges our existing assumptions about the cards. So I want to just read you a couple of sentences from the introduction. Christopher writes Tarot's language is meant to be unexpected. It shocks you, wakes you, humors and comforts you, and offers you medicine in its multiple ways of knowing, seeing and saying. It helps you cope with uncertainty by making chaos and potential something to play in the syntax of a read. Reading refuses to be frozen into resolution, for the tarot is not a fixed text, End quote. There's so much magic and fluidity in the way that Christopher writes about the tarot and I think that every card really serves as almost a portal or an opportunity to dive deep and be delighted by whatever we find, rather than approaching the tarot with set expectations or fixed keywords. I love this book. I can't recommend it highly enough. I'm going to probably say that about every one of these books, but the red tarot in particular has really opened my eyes and shifted my perspective on these cards in a way that I have found so supportive and incredible.
Speaker 1:The second book that I want to recommend is called Radical Tarot by Charlie Claire Burgess. Radical Tarot really makes reclaiming the cards incredibly accessible. I have found this book so poetic in its writing, but it's also really easy to engage with. The language is very beginner friendly and it's really open to ideas From the back cover, informed by queer theory, social and environmental justice and Burgess's lived experience as a queer and non-binary person whose life was changed radically through tarot. Radical tarot is for anyone who dreams that better, more liberated futures are possible.
Speaker 1:This book is not just like Love and Light, but I did find it very inspiring in its portrayals of the cards. Even when digging into really difficult archetypes or cards that might traditionally scare you, Charlie Claire really finds ways of making these cards feel not just accessible but also like opportunities for hope and discovery. One thing I particularly love about this book, which is laid out like a more traditional tarot book and where every card is just going to have its own little section. Charlie provides alternative names for all of the major arcana cards, and I just think that's such a lovely way to help us reframe our perspectives on certain cards. For example, I just flipped to strength and not only is this chapter called beastly entanglement with life, which like come on, let's go, but the alternative names are nature, the wild thing and the heart's creature, and I feel like just those alternative names alone really open up all these new perspectives for how we can see these cards through a more radical lens.
Speaker 1:I want to read you a little bit from chapter one. Charlie writes in a radical tarot, we work with the cards to be active participants in our own lives and in the larger entangled web of life. In querying the cards and expanding the archetypes, in deep listening and curiosity, in claiming the agency for change, we can each enact more inclusive, supportive, equitable futures. A radical tarot acknowledges that we are always working within numerous interconnected systems of the natural world, of privilege, of oppression, of society, of economics, to name just a few, which affect the trajectories of our lives and over which our control is limited. End quote. I think this book is not only beginner friendly to folks who are just getting started with the tarot, but it's also beginner friendly to folks who are looking to liberate their practice and begin learning more about liberatory work and organizing work.
Speaker 1:Next, I want to talk about Tarot for the Hard Work by Maria Minnis. Tarot for the Hard Work is again another one that I was incredibly excited about. That did not disappoint. Maria's work is really focused on anti-racism work in particular, and she does such a good job of making this work feel accessible but also not pulling any punches. This is really about being super authentic and honest with ourselves about where white supremacy and white supremacist ideas are baked deep into the fabric of society and also woven into us in ways that we often don't realize, and so much of Maria's work is really about helping us use tarot in order to interrogate those parts of self, so that we can not only be honest with ourselves about our own blind spots, but also so that we can actually work to correct that and expand our perspectives in ways that are going to benefit not just us but our communities as well. From the back cover, Tarot has always been a powerful guide for introspection and inner work, so what better tool to use when we're ready to do the really hard work? Minnis provides actionable exercises in this Tarot workbook, giving readers a unique personal understanding of what systemic racism is and what steps we can take to begin to dismantle it. End quote.
Speaker 1:I love this book. It focuses specifically on the 22 major arcana archetypes rather than trying to cover the entire tarot, and that really means that Maria has all of this space to dive into these cards in a really juicy and powerful way. Every single section for each card includes a number of exercises and questions and deep dives and explorations to really help you not only understand the card but also make personal connections with the card and experience challenges with the card. There's space for you to write right in the book your own keywords and ideas. But she also ties every card to liberation work specifically and talks about how these cards can show up what they have to offer us and also gives really in-depth journal prompts to help us identify these cards within ourselves and in our worlds. It's a really incredible resource for doing that kind of deep personal work that might be uncomfortable but is also incredibly necessary.
Speaker 1:I'm going to read a couple of sentences from the introduction. Maria writes this work isn't supposed to be easy. One could imagine where we'd be if it was. Our commitment to a radically evolved future means committing now to radical action and change. You might find that even minor changes can feel uncomfortable. Right now is a good time to accept that fact. Anticipate some bumpy roads and start where you are. We must get through the tower to make it to the star End quote. I also think this is a really fantastic book for beginners, Although having some kind of background on the tarot itself might be more helpful with this one, since it's a focus specifically on the major arcana cards rather than looking at the entire deck. But if you are really interested in using archetypes to help guide your anti-racism work, this book is a must have.
Speaker 1:While the rest of the books on this list came out in 2024, this year, this next book that I want to talk about, Queering the Tarot by the incredible Cassandra Snow, actually came out in 2019. So it helped to pave the way for some of these other books, and I think most of them have Cassandra listed in the acknowledgements, and I can say personally, Cassandra also has had a huge influence on my own tarot practice. Queering the Tarot is iconic in a number of ways, because it really helped to introduce this idea of looking at the cards through a queer or radical lens. Now, I don't think this means that you have to be queer in order to read the cards through a queer lens, but I do think that this kind of mindset of looking at the cards through a more modern perspective and being willing to think outside the box when it comes to tarot interpretations has left a really lasting impact on tarot in general. Cassandra is also just a really incredible and generous creator and is someone whose work you should absolutely be supporting From the back cover.
Speaker 1:Tarot is a tool of self-discovery, empowerment and liberation, and yet the tarot archetypes and their interpretations, as they've been passed down to us, presuppose a commonality and sense of normalcy that is white, European and heterosexual, but humanity is vast and diverse culturally, spiritually, sexually. Tarot has the power to serve a greater population if we allow ourselves to unlock its deeper meanings, if we allow ourselves to queer the tarot End quote. This is a really inclusive, accessible and very beginner-friendly perspective on the tarot. It's also just written in a really friendly and accessible way. It feels like you're sitting down with a friend to talk about the cards, which is one thing that I really love about this book and Cassandra's writing in general. Like Radical Tarot, this book is also laid out in a more traditional style. It's also like my own book, Finding the Fool, where every card is going to get its own little chapter, its own little section, and I want to read a little bit to you from the opening chapter.
Speaker 1:Cassandra writes Queering the Tarot is a book about reclamation. Reading cards has always belonged to the most oppressed, from the extremely persecuted Romani people to modern day readers from all walks of life. Yet even now, you will be hard pressed to find any people of color, queer people, disabled people or people who don't look wealthy in a traditional tarot deck. I wrote this book for all of the people not represented in the aforementioned history of books on the tarot. This book is my love song to my community and to everyone who's been hurt or told that they are less than for who they are, whom they love or where they're from. End quote Queering the tarot opened the doors for a lot of us and I really think it's a very important one to have on yourself, especially if you identify as queer. And finally, the book that inspired this entire episode the Incredible 78 Acts of Liberation by Lane Smith. I was lucky enough to read an advanced copy of this book and I have been so excited for it to make its way into the world. Not only is this book incredibly well-researched and hugely informative, as Michelle T says, but it is so deeply inspiring to see how we can take the cards from a personal standpoint and really apply it to the collective.
Speaker 1:This book is organized by number, like the red tarot, but it does use the same Pythagorean numerological correspondences that I use. So if you're familiar with my approach to the numbers and the cards, this might feel a little bit more familiar to you than the red tarot book was. But where this book really stands out is that it assigns every major arcana card to an example from a social movement and it assigns every minor arcana card to a practical and actionable term to know or a skill to practice. In other words, this is not only a book about tarot, it's also a book about the history of social justice movements and liberation in general, and it provides us with actionable items that we can immediately work into our lives, skills that we can practice and things that we can bring to the movement so that we can show up in an empowered and supportive and authentic way. From the back cover, the cards in the tarot deck offer 78 invitations for change, not only in our inner life but beyond. Lane Smith invites us to read each card with an eye toward the collective how we can contribute to liberation in the world.
Speaker 1:There is so much to love about this book, but I want to particularly highlight the history section in the beginning. Now tarot history is really fraught. It's really murky and it often gets really stripped down to just the contributions of the white male, wealthy mystics and occultists that have famously written about the cards. A lot of the rest of tarot history has gotten kind of abandoned or left to the wayside, particularly contributions of marginalized groups like the Romani people and the like, non-wealthy, non-artistic people who might have been using the cards when they were being developed and created. Lynn calls this a critical history of tarot, and I absolutely agree. It is packed with information and tons of really great resources for those of you who really enjoy research, and it also just fills in a lot of the blanks that so often get left out of tarot histories. The book's price alone is worth it just for this history section, but the book itself is just packed with so much good supportive information and I'm really excited for more people to get the chance to read it and talk about it, because it's honestly extraordinary and I want to read a paragraph from the introduction.
Speaker 1:So Lane writes you and your readings are only one very small part of what tarot is, even for you personally. I want you to understand that tarot isn't just what happens in your mind when you look at the cards in front of you. Tarot is also the way you and others were taught to read, the authors that have been published and marketed, and those who haven't, the decks you've used and who has or hasn't been represented in them, and the different kinds of readers and querents you've encountered. Tarot is influenced by who is considered professional and who is or isn't invited to speak at tarot gatherings and the accessibility of those gatherings. It is informed by the race and class divisions throughout tarot history that impact how tarot history is told, how tarot is sold and how reading is taught. All of these factors impact your use of tarot and they are also things that you can actively influence and change End quote. If they are also things that you can actively influence and change End quote If you are looking for really practical strategies of ways to bring tarot work into your activism, into your organizing, into your mutual aid and into your expansion on the perspective of this world and what it's possible for this world to become.
Speaker 1:78 Acts of Liberation is an incredible resource and I really hope you'll pick it up Now. As I mentioned, all of these books are currently out, published and available in the world for you to pick up. So if you're interested in buying a copy, I'm including links to my bookshop right in the show notes, but you can also find them at major bookstores and your local bookstores. And, of course, if you can't afford to buy the book right now, if it's not in the budget, that's totally fine. Requesting it from your local library is an incredible way to support these books and also you get to read some amazing works that you might not be able to have space for on your own shelf. It's my sincere hope that these books really help challenge your perspective on the tarot, expand the possibilities that you see within the cards and inspire you to get more into decolonization and anti-racism work, in addition to the personal work that you're doing with your cards. I would love it if you would share this episode, in particular, on your feeds and tell your friends about it so that they can support these authors, and when you do, please feel free to also highlight other authors and creators and teachers that I haven't shared here.
Speaker 1:I'm an author. I'm focusing on authors in this particular episode, but I know I'm going to do more episodes like this to highlight other incredible tarot teachers and resources that are out there in the world. So thank you so much for spending this time with me, and I will be back soon with more Card Talk. Card Talk is committed to staying ad free for everyone, which is possible thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. To pledge your monthly support or make a one-time donation, click the link in the show notes. You can also find episode transcripts, more about me and additional tarot resources through my website, 3amtarotcom. See you next time.
